International Seminar on CHIN GROUPS successful: Report

Written by Dr. Laiu Fachhai
Tuesday, 21 October 2008

AIZAWL-SHILLONG(Report) - “EXPLORING THE HISTORY, CULTURE, AND ETHNICITY OF THE CHIN GROUPS” tahpa biepipa ta hmâpa ta Mizoram University History & Ethnography ta a pachhuahpanohpa Chin-Kuki-Mizo chizy thâtih rei pahmaohna seminar cha Aizawl Tourist Lodge liata October 13-15 liana khata a pha kawpa ta patlô theipa a châ haw. Pathaona (inaugural) daihti liata Mizoram University Vice Chancellor Prof AN Rai cha Chief Guest châ ta, Mizoram University History & Ethnography liata Professor a châ ngâpa, Professor Dawar ta Keynote Address a tao. Pachhâna (valedictory) daihti liata Prof Tlanglawma, Department of Economics, Mizoram University cha Chief Guest ta hruapa châ ta, Mizoram University History & Ethnography Head of Department Dr O Rosanga ta alyna bie (vote of thanks) reina a hnei. He seminar Coordinator he eima hnôhlâ ta eima palâsa hawpa hawhna kha ta, Mizoram University History & Ethnography liata Senior Lecturer a châ ngâpa Dr K Robin, keimolâsaw, châ ta; pahnie kawpa nata ryhrao dâh thai kawpa ta seminar cha a patohpatia lyma. Ama department liata professor ama hnei chhôhpa nata Mizoram University liata professor nata chhituh hropa zydua chhaoa a chô liata aly kaw ei ta, amâ palaikhei kawpa ta ei hmô. Dr K Robin he Mongyuh reih chhao a vaw thai kaw. A pronunciation chhao â ngia ngaitakaw. Keimolâsaw vaw châ pâ heih ta, ei hmia eina pakai ngâsâ thlah ha. Seminar a vaw hlaopa zydua ta a chô liata alyna bie thata ama rei chyu. Dr K Robin (Daoki Paw) vata Beipa liata alyna bie reih si la, a academic career, Aizawl Mara Church liata a machâ chakaona raihria, Maraland, Mizoram nata khizaw kawh viapa châta a thaina nata sona a hmâna kyh, nata a lapisaw zy a chakaona liata Beipa ta thatlôna nata sona zy a tobi via lyma nawpa ta thlahchhâ khei suh vy!He seminar hryuna zydua he Brussel liata ama office a hneipa Euro-Burma Desk ta Chin National Council siepahliepa ta a vaw tôh khai.

Paper present awpa heta open châ leipa ta hrua eihpazy deita ta ama present thei. India universityzy tawhta a vaw hlao theipazy: University of Hederabad, University of Nagaland, University of Manipur, Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU), North Eastern Hill University (NEHU) nata Mizoram University. Seminary tawhta Aizawl Theological College tawhta pakha nata John Roberts Theological Seminary tawhta pakha eimâ hlao thei hra. Mizoram chhôh liata college thokhazy tawh chhaota amâ vaw hlao hra. Râh hro lâ tawhta khazie rakhama vaw tlô hra ei ta, râh hro lâ tawhta a vaw tlôpa a hluhvia zydua cha khizaw râh su nano su nanopazy liata aypa Chin chyhsazy ama châ.

He ary liatapazy he paper nata a present-tuhpazy ama châ:

1. Ethnicity Theory, Linguistics, and Chin Identity – Prof FK Lehman, Professor of Anthropology and Linguistics, Cognitive Science, University of Illinois, Urbana – Champaign, USA.2. Contested Nomenclatures: The Kuki-Chin-Mizo Perspective – Dr TT Haokip, Rader, Department of Political Science, Manipur University, Imphal, India.

3. Imperative Clauses in Lai and Mizo – Prof George Bedell, Professor of Linguistics, Payap University, Thailand.

4. Origin and Development of Mizo Language and Literature: Early Period – Prof Laltluangliana Khiangte, Department of Mizo, Mizoram University, Aizawl, India.

5. The Kuki-Chin-Mizo: Identity and the Vagaries of Ethnonym – Mr Helkhomang Touthan, Research Scholar, Department of Anthropology, Manipur University, Imphal, India.

6. The Origin of Chin – Dr Lian H Sakhong – Director of Research, Euro-Burma Office and Member, Chin Forum.

7. Historical and Cultural Background of the Chins – Dr Priyadarshini M Gangte, Lecturer, Damdei Christian College, Imphal, India.

8. The Koms of Manipur – Dr Nongthombam Jiten, Research Associate in the Centre for Myanmar Studies, Manipur University, Imphal, India, and Manilei Serto, Lecturer, RK Sanatombi Devi College of Education, Imphal, India.

9. The Early History of the Chins – Chawn Kio, Retd Teacher, Burma.

10. History, Culture, and Worldview: The Traditional Ecological Knowledge of the Chin-Lushei – H Vanlalhruaia, Research Scholar, Department of History, Hyderabad University, Hyderabad, India.

11. Rethinking Sacred Geography of the Chins in the Historical Context – Malsawmdawnglian Lailung, Research Scholar, Department of History, Hyderabad University, Hyderabad, India.

12. The Chins in Manipur – D Michael Lunminthang Haokip, Research Scholar, Department of Political Science, Manipur University, Imphal, India.

13. Emergence of Sukte Paramontcy in Northern Chin Hills: Origin and Development – Dr Pum Khan Pau, Lecturer, Department of History, Dharmanagar College, Tripura, India.

14. Emergence of Chin Hills Regulations 1896: Its Scope and Importance in History – Lian Uk, Member, Chin Forum.

15. Institution of Slavery in the Chin Hills: A Study – Dr AK Thakur, Reader, Department of History, NEHU, Shillong, India.

16. Chin-Lushai Conference – Dr C Lalthlengliana, Lecturer, Department of History, Aizawl West College, Aizawl, India.

17. The Sacrificial Post of the Chins in Burma and the Lusei: A Comparative Study – Mr Malsawmliana, Lecturer, Department of History, Govt, R Romana College, Aizawl, India.

18. ‘Chin’ – The Mother Lode of Zo Traditional Society – Dr V Ruata Rengsi, Reader, Department of History, NEHU, Shillong, India.

19. Development of Hill Region through Integrated Farming Village Project – Dr Salai Tun Than, California, USA.

20. Hypertext in Chin-Kuki History – Dr MN Rajest, Lecturer, Department of History, Hyderabad University, Hyderabad, India.

21. The Origin of the Maras and their Migration with Reference to their Chin Hills Settlement – Dr K Zohra, Lecturer, Department of History, Saiha College, Siaha, India.

22. Becoming a Foreigner in One’s Own Land: The Mara People’s Experience of the Division of their Land – Dr Laiu Fachhai, Visiting Professor, John Roberts Theological Seminary, Shillong, India.

23. Chhinlung: Myth and History in the Creation of Identity – Dr Joy Pachuau, Assistant Professor, Centre for Historical Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi, India.

24. Globalization: The Mizoram Experience – Prof Margaret Ch Zama, Department of English, Mizoram University, Aizawl, India.

25. Fragmented Identity in the Era of Globalization: A Case Study of the Kuki-Mizo-Chin Tribes – Lianboi Vaiphei, Lecturer, Indrapratha College, New Delhi, India.

26. Post-Colonial History of the Chins – Chungkhosei Baite, Research Scholar, Department of Political Science, Manipur University, Imphal, India.

27. Traditional Cuisines of North East India: Fermented Food with Innovative Nutraceuticals – Taurine: Assurance to Sound Health – Prof RC Gupta, Nagaland University, Medziphema, India.

28. Mizo Food and Globalization – Dr Cherrie L Chhangte, Lecturer, Department of English, Mizoram University, Aizawl, India.

29. Traditional Chin Music – Salai Tawna, Switzerland.

30. Acculturation and Aspects of Identity in the Prediction of General Wellbeing – Dr C Lalfamkima Varte, Reader, Department of Psychology, Mizoram University, Aizawl, India.

31. Peace in Mizoram: A Study of the Role of Students in the Peace Process – Dr JV Hluna, Reader, Department of History, Pachhunga University College, Aizawl, India.

32. A Century of Struggle for Zo Reunification: Prospects and Problems – Dr Sangkima, Principal, Gove. Aizawl College, Aizawl, India.

33. Prof Vanlalchhuanawma, Vice Principal, Aizawl Theological College, Aizawl, India.Nuhby 32-na Dr Sangkima he a paper panano ha ta, a pananopa topic cha “Zo” tahpa etymology lâ chhâh a châ. Nuhby 33-na Prof Vanlalchhuanawma paper topic deikua a thei khao va na. Ano he program hmiatuapa liata a hlao leipa châ ta, last minute ta a vaw present hrapa a châ. Ama paper present-pa a pha kaw sai. Paper present tuhpa zydua thla 2 chhôh mopathi nawpa daihti maniah pie ei ta, eima final cha paphao heih aw pi ta, Euro-Burma sponsor-pa ta Mizoram University History & Ethnography Department ta papua awpa â chhuah.Mawpa nata Laipa paper a present-tuhpa thokha nata comment thokhazy liata Mara reih cha Lai reih nata ananona y vei; Marapasawzy he Laipa na ama châ hra; Mara reih he cha reih pitlohpa, language, châ leipa ta “dialect” na a châ; Marapa chi he cha sub-tribe na ama châ, tahpa lâ chhâh ta reih ei ta, chahawhta a châ lei zie ei theina rakha ta reih hra na ta, keima paper ei present noh chhao hehawhta biechhâna (conclusion) ei tao pâ hra:
1. Lai (Liah) reih nata Mara reih a lyu vei. Lai nawhta Mara reih thei leipa ei ta, Mara nawh ta Lai rei thei hra mapi. Rei thabypa (root word) a lyupa la a y hôlô tlai. Eima pho chhao a lyupa a y hôlô tlai. Reih thabyhpa thokha a lyupa vata Mara he Lai na a châ tah thai awpa châ vei. Eima pho a lyu viapazy chhao he Abei pho zy châ via ei ta, he Abeipazy he ryurei awpa ta eimâ kaw lapazy, amâ beina râh liata ti nata râh ama to thei lei vata Maraland lâ a zu hapazy na ama châ hri. Hehawhta abei phozy Maraland lâ amâ zu hlâta Marapasaw he ama vaw y ha na. Lai nawh la eima unawhpa la nama châ ngyu aw; chahrasala eima paw (father or ancestor) deikua châ veih ei chi, tahpa ta ei chhy ei.
2. Mara reih he dialect châ leipa ta reih pitlohpa language na a châ tahpa ta a sia kawpa ta nata thatlô kawpa ta a duakhei na ta, Marapa chi chhao sub-tribe châ leipa pita major tribe na eima châ tahpa ei duakhei hra.
3. Laipa (Vyhtu or Zophei-pa) Puhpa Lian Uk ama tahpa heta eikha cha thata na vaw ei ta, Marapa cha Lai pathla na nama châ, chavata Lai na nama châ hra, vaw tah ta, a ngia lei daihmana taihta bâh ta vaw emotional pâ na ta, “nâma ta ahy ma eima châ tahpa maniah reipa thei va chi; keimo nata keimo tata na ahyma eima châ tahpa eimâ rei aw” tahpa ta ei vâ chhy. Chavata thokha ta cha a “communal” pâpa hawhta chhaota eina pachâ thei aw ei. Dr Laiu he academician, scholar phapa a châ thlâ bao nata, anodeikua bâh ta communal pâ ha ta, tahpa thokha ta ama reipa eina chho pachhuah ei. Chahrasala pei vei. Chi hropazy ei hao lei zie ei cha Beipa ta eina pahno. Ei Mara châna deikua a my thai awpa châ va na.
4. Chin, Kuki, Mizo term zy he, he rachhôh liata a pahrâpa Tibeto-Burman chi zydua a pahly khaipa termzy châ ta hmâpa a châ khiata cha, Marapa cha Chin chi kha (Mara Chin) châ thei hra pi ta, Mizo chi kha (Mara Mizo) chhao eima châ thei hra. Anodeikua, “Lai” tahpa term he Haka-Thlantlang (India liata eikhano ta Pawi eima tahpa) reih a cheihpazy reina châta hmâpa a châ via ha tyhpa vata Marapa pi cha Lai a tah thai awpa châ mapi. Mizo chhao he Lusei (Tlaikao) reih a cheihpa nawh ta amo eih viapa hawhta hmôna a y hapa vata, Marapa pi cha eima Mizo identity liata eima lalao khai haw. Lusei reih a cheihpa thokha ta Marapasawzy pi cha Mizo dik tak (Mizo hmeihseihpa) hawhta maniah pachâ leipa ei ta, chavata second class Mizo châ châpa ta cha Mara tlâ châ awpa he eima khoh via. Chin châ awpa chhao cha Lai nawh sie pahliepa ta Chin kaw châ awpa byuh leipa ta, Lai cha Lai ta tla y hra aw ei ta, keimo chhao direct ta Mara Chin eima châ thei thlah ha na, tahpazy ta ei rei pâ hra.
5. Ei paper liata hlâno ta eima beizy kha “chief” châ leipa ei ta “king” na ama châ hra tahpa ta argument tao na ta, eima khihzy kha village chakhyhpa châ leipa ei ta, “city-state” na ama châ hra tahpa ta argument ei tao hra. He kyh he ro via lyma a chhuah na ta, hmialâ liata cha keima authority châ thei cheingei se, tahpa ei khoh hra.
Dr Ngochole kha USA lâ tawhta a vaw hlao hra aw khiah ma tahpa ta vaw mokhâh pi ta, chahrasala a vaw hlao thei leipa ta, Chin National Council ta ama hrua hrapa Satlia Elaisa Vahnie chhao a vaw hlao thei hra leipa ta, a vaw hlao thei hra ei sa la, tahpa eima kho kawpa tlai! Chahrasala Dr Zohra nata keima chhâ ta a hlao thei pi ta; a hlao leipa ta eima y tlamaw aw, tahpa chi a vaw chhih kaw. Eima hlao lei khiata cha Mara reih cha Lai dialect, nata Marapa chi cha Lai sub-tribe hawhta maniah ama vaw pathlupa thlah ha nawpa a nao kaw. Chavata hehawhpa kyh liata ao (voice) eima hnei laih lyma ba hra awpa he a peimawh kaw.Achhâna liata thlahchhâ maniah a vaw baopa Maraland.Net-ers zydua nama chô liata alyna bie eima reih.Note from Maraland.net:Dr. Laiu Fachhai, Pastor Vanoh Paw Maraland.net eima hawna hlao maniah patlohpa ta report pha kawpa maniah avaw chhuanoh theipa vata acho liata eima ly hmeiseih.
Comments
Written by Guest on 2008-10-22 01:12:04
Dr. Laiu Fachhai, Report pha kawpa zy maniah vaw pahnosa chita eima chaly hmeiseih. Hlaotloh kawpa ta Seminar chhao nama hma tahpa zy vaw pahno pita Abeipa lata alyna bie chhao eima vaw reih lyma hra. Paper present tuhpa zy za mopa khita he Seminar he ahlaotloh kaw tahpa pahno theipa a cha. He hawpa Seminar pipaw kawpa, Internationa Seminar liata Co-Ordinator cha ta Marapasaw, Dr. K. Robin (Daoki Paw), Senior Lecturer, MZU, Aizawl a cha thlah pa he aronah ngaita kawpa a cha. Eipalai khei hmeiseih hra. Achhana liata na bie reipa he he Seminar liata Marasaw zy a eih viapa ta eima hlaotlohna sakha acha pata eipahno. (Dr Zohra nata keima chhâ ta a hlao thei pi ta; a hlao leipa ta eima y tlamaw aw, tahpa chi a vaw chhih kaw. Eima hlao lei khiata cha Mara reih cha Lai dialect, nata Marapa chi cha Lai sub-tribe hawhta maniah ama vaw pathlupa thlah ha nawpa a nao kaw. Chavata hehawhpa kyh liata ao (voice) eima hnei laih lyma ba hra awpa he a peimawh kaw.) He bie he hmo dopa chata, zakhano la tawh chhaota a vaw tlo lyma pa a cha. Marapa zy keimo ta tah eima chana eima reihpasiana he y lila vei. Chavata, Lai pa nata Tlaikaopa zyta bias kawpa ta eima History he ama vaw roh tyh. Ahao achhi ngaita. Atanoh Khizaw pahnopa ta Marapa eima chana nata eima History dopa zy Dr. Laiu Fachhai nata Dr. K. Zohra zyta ama vaw reihpa puapa he aronah kaw. Marasaw zy myla hano daihti avaw sie lyma awpa liata ngiatlah a cha kaw awpa chi a cha. Tawhta, Dr. Laiu Fachhai Paper liata Conclusion Point chhah chaina khi keima pachana nata apy dah nata alyu kaw. (Ei paper liata hlâno ta eima beizy kha “chief” châ leipa ei ta “king” na ama châ hra tahpa ta argument tao na ta, eima khihzy kha village chakhyhpa châ leipa ei ta, “city-state” na ama châ hra tahpa ta argument ei tao hra.) He heta achhopasia kawpa cha Marapa zy he chi nata pho hluhpi maniah apahlypa a chana he a cha. Reih chhao eima hnei chyu hra, chatana chata, Marapa chana liata eima hmaokha khaipa a cha. Reih awpa hlupi a y thei aw. Chyhsa hropa zy chhao nama pachana vaw reih chyu hra tua u ly... Achhana chaina liata cha Marasaw chathaipa eima chahneipa zy nama taopha hmeiseih. Arinah eita dah he reih thai va na! Syhta, Thasia T. Azyu, Lecturer, Saiha Gov`t College duamaw a dah kaw..Ano he avaw hlaopa thei hrasala, Tawhta Dr. John Hamlet zy chhao avaw hlao thei hrasala cha Marasaw eima pyu aru kawpa tlai. Chasala, aronah tuha tahpa hleikhota reih thaipa cha vei. Delhi Mara Satlia
Nama taopha kaw na!!Written by Guest on 2008-10-22 02:15:54
Mara pa zydua vyuh pata tahma hawhta hmiala eima duan'aw awpa, eima chana sia viapata nama vawrei ha pa chocha liata eima chalykaw. Narei chi pa hawhta Mara pa eima identity he rei lyma, aduakhei lyma, achuvia lyma awpa he eima zydua rai acha. Report a detail kaw pata miah vawpie chita eima chaly hmeihseih. Sisipaw, Chennai.
Written by Guest on 2008-10-22 02:24:21
I dont know Mara history that much..I quess we hav relation with Lai's..our kings fought to preserve the land...Our warriors hunt the head...... Today scholars may say this that and so on..we have no written history...taking this advantage the scholars may b saying that we r Mizo/Lai sub tribe..i can't just b Mizo/Lai..i never wil agree with them. the blood running in my veins is the blood of Mara and so i'm a Mara no others... I do request history students to do more research regarding our history. Long live Mara -Mara till I die-
Mara Vs LaiWritten by Guest on 2008-10-22 02:57:25
Dear Dr. Laiu Fachai nata Unawhzy, International Seminar on Chin Groups kyh thatih tloh kawpa report maniah vaw chhuanoh theipa he na cho liata eima ly hmeiseih. Lai Vs Mara kyh liata riahphapa nata achao kaw pata eima chana dopa na duakheipa he na cho lia eima ly pachaipa a cha. Puhpa Lai U (Pu Lian Uk) he kha haw khata Marapa maniah ata tyhpa a cha. Proof ay leipa Chin = Lai tahpa asie khei tyhpa a cha hra. Ko 2006 Chasipaw daihti (December thlapa tlyma?) liana kha USA Washington DC lia "Chin Textile Museum" mo awpa ta na pahrua ta, eima va moh nota areipa cha: "Mara cha Lai nama cha" tahpata bie apathao. "N. E. Perry ta acha leipa nata adoleipa ta "The Lakhers" tahpa chabu liata roh ta, R. Lorrian ta Mara cha zy taota, chipho hroapa hawta nama lah. Ahmeiseihta la, Lai pa achapa Marapa zy Lai nama chapa he nama pahnopasia awpa na a cha, Mara tahpa cha chyhsa chi pho moh chhao cha leipa ta, ti nata tlah, suh moh (place name) deita tlao a cha" tahpata arei. Keima ta eichhyna cha 1) Historically ta Kangaw-Thinlin tawta Senthang, Zophei, Lautu, Mara, Zotung (one group, one family) eima zapuana record a y. Thatlang rah la tawta za chopa Mararah liata aphrapa chhaikha eima y hra. (2) Contemporary Theory hawta, Nation/Race/Tribe pitlohpa cha thei nawpa chata i. rah (geography land), ii. Rei nata Cha (literature) iii. Thaokei Phoryhpa (Culture and Dress), he satho he eima hneipa a cha khiah chipho tlohpa eima cha. (3) Logically ta, nama reipa hawta khiahla Lai, Mara, Zophei etc... zydua he Tibet/China rah liata Jin/Cin eima tahthla vei, acha liekhiah Ada eima ta thlah vei? Ada chipthlapa China rah tawta avaw pua laipa sai cha tlo pita, nama reipa hawta khiah cha Lai, Zo, Mara, Khumi eima tah ngana chhapa chhao y aw vei daih maw. Tidim nata Mara likaw hlata hlata Lai nata Mara likaw deikua eima hnia via. Tiddim tribe nata Mara cha Ko 1200 AD rachho lia achhaih hapa chata, Lai tribe nata deikua 1400 AD rachho deita eima chhaih. Chavata, atahma ta eima chana Chipho tlohpa eima chapa he fully ta na recognize awpa nata na py hra awpa a cha." tahpa ta ei vaw chhy. Political gain vata popularity nata rhetoric kaw pata Lai or Mizo saina eima cha tahpa zy he Politician chhaikhazy pahasa kaw tyh eita, apei kaw. Scholarly argument y leipa ta, historically nata logically ta back-up y hra vei. Nama reipa he communal feeling y leipa ta, chana dopa adua kheipa tlao a chapa kha ama vaw pahno thai hri awpa apha. Nama vaw tao pha hmeiseih. Eima cha ly kaw. Elaisa
The question of LaiWritten by Guest on 2008-10-22 21:26:55
Sir Rev.Laiu Congtrats for your participation in seminar at MZU.. I would however,like to contest your arqument that the nomenclature Lai denotes only Haka-thantlang speaking people.. As you know the ground realities in Chin Hills where even non-Haka speaking tribes like thangtlang, Senthang, Lautu,Laizo, Zotung and Zophei(Zyphe/Vawngtu) also identify themselves as a part of Laimi, I don't think your contention that Lai refers only to Haka speaking communities is correct.. In fact, Pu Lian Uk and other Chin historians( manifested in their writings in various article and books) were right in saying that Laimi consist of sub groups- Zyphe, Thantlang, Zytung, senthang, etc. who have their own dialect yet when they composed an epics or hlado they all composed in their mother dialect-Haka.. Take for instances, my tribe(Zyphe), we have our own local songs and others but when it comes to Hlado and Hlapui our forefathers had composed it in Haka( lingua franca for Laimi tribes)..In terms of linguistic affinity these sub-groups-Zyphe, Lautu, senthang, etc. have a lot of similarity with Haka dialect which is becoming Lai holh or language.. At the same time, though our Zophei brethen in Chin hills are a part of Lai, In India we do not necessarily claim to be a part of Lai. The dynamic nature of ethnicity which can underwent a change with change in Politics, geography, etc. explains this..I believe the same thing will happen to our Lautu, Senthang, etc brethen have they settled in India.. After all out here in India even Lai themselves properly do not know about their own languages.. Nevertheless, the generic term Lai applies not only to Haka-speaking communities which is clear from the nature of ethnicity in Chin state. M.H.James. shillong
Written by Guest on 2008-10-23 04:31:25
Dear M.H James, Pu Lian Uk and other Chin historians all the times write our history that way. Their biased writings have led us to this position. First of all we must understand that the tribals living in this part of the Kuki-Chin-Mizo world are closely knitted people from time immemorial separated only by a slightly different languages - we cannot say they are just dialects. Languages evolve and becomes finally stable after certain point of time. In fact, English is called a Germanic language but we cannot say it is a dialect of German. Likewise, Mara, Zophei, Zotung, Senthang and others too may share similarities with their brethren languages - Mizo, Lai, Hmar, Thadou, Zomi, etc, but we can't classify them as a dialect of those. If Zopheis or Zotungs are much in population today, they will do the same thing what Lais in Myanmar(Burma) are doing today. We still live in a world dominated by a more populous and more powerful people. Politically, it makes no sense for these smaller ones to assert their existence as a separate and equal tribe. Because of this weaknesses, Lusei speaking people now adopt Mizo as the new name for these tribals in india exploit the same by calling the rest Mizos including Lais, Maras, Paites, etc. In Burma, the same thing happens, Lais are the dominant group there and they do the same thing. It is appalling to see such and someone like you are a victim of such political propaganda. We are all equal and need to respect one another. Then we can have peace and tranquility in the areas where we live. Sub-tribe tag is the worse political manipulation Lais or Mizos could ever impose on the smaller tribes. Let's hope Dr.Laiu will respond too. - PeaceOut
To whom it may concern (whoever say MaraWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 04:55:38
PeaceOut has made the point. Just to add one more thing before Dr. Laiu respond: But those historians all the times write our history that way including Pu Lian Uk always made a very big mistake and contradict their own claim when they they write Mara, Lautu, Zophei, Zotung, Senthang are the sub-tribe of Lai and they equate the term Lai and Chin ( e.g. Lai = Chin). If they claim Lai = Chin, then they may be right to say Mara is sub-tribe of Lai or Chin. That will also make it true Lushei and Zo is sub-tribe of Lai or Chin. Interestingly, they seem to never realized this self contradiction! StableMara
Laiu's responseWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 09:38:10
Dear James, I appreciate your comments. Reading your arguments, I could see that you are a learned man. Others too, Delhi Mara Satlia, Sisi Paw, -Mara till I die -, Elaisa, PeaceOut, StableMara and all who are following this discussion. You all have done well. Thanks to you all. 1. First of all, let us discuss about whether Mara is a language or dialect. According to Genese 11, at the beginning the whole world spoke ONE language. With the breaking down of the Babel tower, many languages appeared. Today we have more than six thousand languages in the world. And Mara is one of these languages. Let me substantiate my point. If Mara is a dialect, then which one would be the main language of which Mara is its dialect? Although it is not true in all cases, when we say dialect, in many cases, different dialects of a main language could communicate/understand each other. If Lai includes Haka-Thlantlang, Zophei, Lautu, Zotung, Senthang, Mara, then which of these languages would be the main language. Is the Haka-Thlantlang language the main Lai language or is it one of the Lai dialects? I am afraid that the Haka-Thlantlang people claim their language as the main Lai languages while demoting all these other languages as Lai dialects. The reality today is, Haka-Thlantlang people and Mara people do not communicate/understand each other. So are Mizo (Lusei/Duhlian) and Mara people. Haka-Thlantlang language and Mizo (Lusei/Duhlian) languages are very close. They could somehow communicate each other. But not Mara and Lai, nor are Mara and Lusei. Let us read the following sentences: "Chahawh rima cha, Tlaikaopa nata Hiakha-Thlatla pazy ta keimolasaw maniah charichahmypa ta maniah pahleipadia ama chhuah ha he; ei khiahloh rai vaw tlah thei khao va!" Whoever could read these lines and understand it as his/her mother tongue, that is, without learning this language, are Mara. "Zo chia le Zo ek tan sau pawl, zei dah nan chim ve; Haka-Thlantlang pawl kan chim mi le kan tuah mi hi rak ngai u law, rak tuah ve ko u!" Those who could read this lines and understand as their monther tongue, that is, without learning this language, are Haka-Thlantlang people or so-called Lai. "Lakher-ho lah hi in tlem te lulhnen UT te in ti ve a, a nuiza thlak hle mai" Those who could read and understand this sentence as his/her mother tongue without learning this language are Mizo (Lusei/Duhlian). From the above examples, it should be clear now that these three languages are very different. Without learning the other language, these three groups would not be able to communicate each other. This also shows that they are not just dialects, but complete languages. As regards Hlado, Dr Lian H Sakhong agreed that although the Zophei people sing it in Lai (Haka-Thlantlang) language, some of those who sing do not really understand the meaning, unless they had learned Haka-Thlantlang language. Therefore, to say that we belong to the same ethnic group and language based on similarities in our Hlados is too simplistic. Maybe Hlado originated from the Haka-Thlantlang area which Mara people might have borrowed. Since it is a borrowed one, they did not know how to Maranize it. Remember, each language group in the world has many borrowed words, borrowed tunes, borrowed cultures, borrowed names, borrowed food habits, etc. For examplem "sawhkha" is a Mara word, but is a borrowed word (from Hindi?). The Bible Society of India, for that matter, the world, recognized and accepted Mara as a language. The Government of India recognized Mara as a language. In the final analysis, we the insiders should decide for ourselves. Outsiders do not understand us and therefore they shoud not impose their ideologies on us. The worse thing would be for outsiders to impose themselves on us to serve their political agenda. 2. Mara as a major tribe, not a sub-tribe of Lai. If Zophei, Lautu, Zotung and Senthang people in Myanmar want to be Lai or more correctly sub-tribes of Lai, well, may the Lord bless them as Lai. But just because they want to be Lai, they cannot force the Mara people too to be Lai. Looking at the present geo-political realities, the Mara people have every reason to have their own separate identity as Mara. Above all, we all were just one people in the beginning; we all were Adamites. But today, there are so many people groups in the world. Therefore, it is undeniable fact that, in the course of time, the Mara people had grown into a distinct tribe/nation. Having said that, the Haka-Thlantlang (Lai) and Mara might have been "brothers" many, many centuries ago. But today, we have our own languages, lands, and identity. So why would the so-called Lai people continue to insist that Mara is Lai? If they say that we are their brothers, yes, we would love to be their brothers. But we are no longer Lai. As StableMara has rightly pointed out, the Lai scholars' ideological grand positioning of Lai is to equate it with Chin, that is, Lai=Chin. But in reality, they restrict Lai to several Falam (Laizo, etc) groups, Haka-Thlantlang, Zokhua, Zophei, Lautu, Zotung, Senthang, Mara, etc only. This is what Lian H Sakhong asserted: Under his Chin, he listed six major groups: Asho, Cho (Sho), Khuami, Laimi (Lai), Mizo (Lushai), and Zomi (Kuki). This assertion clearly shows that Lai is not Chin, but Lai is a group of Chin only. The Bible Society of India discovered the Mara language as very distinct from other Chin-Kuki languages such as Lai, Mizo (Lushei), Hmar, Paite, etc. Therefore, they even do not classify Mara language under Chin-Kuki languages. Having said that, it is true that the Mara people have many similarities with other Chin-Kuki groups. The fact, however, is that we had separated from othe Chin-Kuki, including Lai, groups for centuries. We could accept if the Mara is listed in par with six Chin or Chin-Kuki groups. In that trajectory, Lian H Sakhong's major groups of Chin or Chin-Kuki would include: Asho, Cho (Sho), Khuami (Mro), Laimi, Mizo (Lushai), Zomi, Mara. The bottome line: In order for the Mara people to be included in Chin-Kuki-Mizo groups, we do not have to go through the Lai or Lushai, we could be a Chin-Kuki-Mizo tribe in our own right. We have come a long way as Mara; we do not have to belittle our identity and merge with Lai. Let me, however, make my position clear. When I speak for a Mara identity, I do respect and wish the Lai and Mizo well. I am their good neighbor and friend. They are God's people; so I love them. What I am trying to do is to see things the way insiders see and feel, not the way outsiders want it to be. Laiu Fachhai
My response to JamesWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 19:29:16
Hi James, first of all, I want to thank you for participating here and giving valuable insights. I will try to respond how I see things from my end too. @James: In fact, Pu Lian Uk and other Chin historians( manifested in their writings in various article and books) were right in saying that Laimi consist of sub groups- Zyphe, Thantlang, Zytung, senthang, etc. My Response: These scholars wanted to even burn down N.E Perry's The Lakhers since Perry's book they said is legitimating the existence of Mara as separate, distinct tribe. Mr. Perry's work on this book was valuable but it merely exposed the truth, nothing more. @James:. who have their own dialect yet when they composed an epics or hlado they all composed in their mother dialect-Haka.. Take for instances, my tribe(Zyphe), we have our own local songs and others but when it comes to Hlado and Hlapui our forefathers had composed it in Haka( lingua franca for Laimi tribes).. My response: Maras sing Hlado and Hlapui in Lautu (Azao) language. Does this mean Mara is a sub-tribe of Lautu? I don't think so. Even Lusei's hlado and hlapuis are all Lai. It also doesn't mean they are sub-tribe of Lai. Rather it is found out that usually people tend to sing Hlado and Hlapui in a language everyone may not understand as it is also in religious practices visible in some religion. Eg. Hindu priests praying in Sanskrit - a language not everyone understands. Such practices are common. Zopheis must have done it the same thing. It doesn't necessarily mean that such songs will have to be composed in our mother language. If your argument is true, then Mizos(Luseis) too as the sub-tribe of Lai. Why Lais are so obsessed with assimilating smaller tribes - clubbing them all under their wings? But if they use the same stick with Mizos, they will laught at them. So, their scholars should have better check some new trick for their argument to stand tall. @James: In terms of linguistic affinity these sub-groups-Zyphe, Lautu, senthang, etc. have a lot of similarity with Haka dialect which is becoming Lai holh or language.. My response: Languagistic affinity can be used as a measurement for languages as a distinct languages provided they understand each other(one another). Germanic languages as @PeaceOut mentioned are today a very different language. And no scholars will say English speaking people are sub-tribe of Germans. Latin, Greek, Romans languages have all those affinities and closeness. But these languages not dialects of one, but are distinct and separate languages today. @James: At the same time, though our Zophei brethen in Chin hills are a part of Lai. My response: When they are too small to be counted politically, the only option left is to go with those who have more authority, power and strength. A century ago, Lais were really powerful and most tribals in the region had to make space for them. That's the reason why they occopy the centre of the Kuki-Chin-Mizo land. Their influence was felt by kings of chiefs as far as Chapi, Tipa, Siaha. Zopheis are too insignificant to say they are distinct and equal partner of Lais. The only option left is to submit to Lais. Today, they formed an alliance with Zotung, Lautu, Mara and Senthang, they called it ZZLMS to assert their distinct identities. @James: In India we do not necessarily claim to be a part of Lai. The dynamic nature of ethnicity which can underwent a change with change in Politics, geography, etc. explains this.. My response: Zopheis in India do not called themselves part of Lai but those in Burmese do.. if you stand with this viewpoint it makes no sense at all. This is not the dynamic nature of ethnicity but wrong portrayal of the true identity of distinct and varied tribes living in the region. In my opinion it is not the dynamic nature of the ethnicity in this part of the world, but rather this signifies that we Kuki-Chin-Mizo people do share too similar background that when one goes to the other place where others are dominant they became part of that group. That's why assimilation is very easy. You Zopheis stay close to Lais and you mostly understand Lais much like them and many Maras whose villages are close to Zophei and Lais too know these two languages, the same goes with Lautus but if you go down south, you won't find Maras speaking Lais, Mizos, Lautu, Zophei, or those languages. Meaning these are all distinct languages that have evolved. To tell you the truth, Zopheis too were not satisfied with reading the Holy Bible in the so-called their main language Laihawlh and now they have it in Zophei language, thanks to Rev. Dr. J. Ralbuai. Zophei too is a distinct language not just a dialect of Lai. All Lais do not understand Zophei dialect if it is true. English in England understand American English which is another dialect of English, likewise Yorkshire English speakers understand Australian english and vice versa, etc. They are clearly dialects. But not Lai and Mara speakers. Some may understand but majority of them do not understand. I myself do not know the so-called Lai hawlh, likewise majority Maras do not understand, not to mention if Lais understand Mara language. That's an impossible proposition altogether. @James: I believe the same thing will happen to our Lautu, Senthang, etc brethen have they settled in India.. After all out here in India even Lai themselves properly do not know about their own languages.. My response: That's what we call assimilation. They got assimilated with the majority people. Lawngtlai people now speak Mizo(Lusei) but not Sangau, Bualpui and the adjacent villages. We must remember Lais and Mizos are now trying to assert their names when it comes to claim all the Kuki-Chin-Mizo group. Lais are just trying their best in Burma as much as Mizos do in India. These are a futile attempt on their parts. The truth cannot be hidden for long, it will all be revealed. @James: Nevertheless, the generic term Lai applies not only to Haka-speaking communities which is clear from the nature of ethnicity in Chin state. My response: This conclusion is very un-scholarly and has no logical support to claim and you may want to change your argument. Maras in India and Burma speak the same language with different dialects. They are still Maras. With your assumption, it looks like Maras in Burma became Lais and Maras in India become someone else. This is a very weak reasoning. If they are Lais in Burma, they should be still Lai in India too. Why Lais lost their identity in India? If they chose to speak Lusei - that suffix their stand too. Lais in India are too insignificant to claim their separate identity like Zopheis in Burma. And they are left with no option but to follow the biggest group among Kuki-Chin-Mizo group which is really disgusting. We all need to know that peace and true harmony will emerge only when we recognize each others first as distinct people speaking different languages but are closely related to one another. Simply because some are less doesn't mean we should try to assimilate them. Let them also develop their languages, increase literature, etc. We must all develop together as a whole. We cannot and should not allow anyone among us to be left behind in development and progress. That way 'Unity in diversity' will prevail, otherwise then these "biased scholars" will continue to feast on their wishful thinking which is ultimately futile. I'm afraid that these scholars will only stir up hatred and dissensions among otherwise peace loving people in this part of the world. We must not allow such thing to happen. Let freedom and truth prevail everywhere at any cost and every tribe lives happily and enjoys peace and freedom forever. - Mara Superstar
additionWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 11:51:13
Chin = Asho, Mara, Khumi, Lai, Lautu Zomi, Senthang, Zophei, Zotung, etc in Chin Hills. Lai = Hakha & Thlantlang dialects in Chin Hills. In India, Mizo may include many tribes as per the definition accepted by the people living in it. But if it is only to describe Lusei/Duhlian speaking people, then Hmars, Lais, Maras, Paites may not be counted there. - Mara Superstar.
responseWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 21:09:04
Thank you to sir Rev Laiu and others for your kind response and other clarification... At the onset I would like to make it clear that while asserting the pluralistic nature of Laimi tribes, I did not necessarily try to include Mara in Laimi fold. The only things which I point out is that besides Haka-Thantlang tribes,other groups-Zophei, Senthang, Lautu, etc are also considered and identify themselves as a part of greater Laimi tribes..I have no knowledge or any right to comment on the existence of Mara as a distinct trbe. At the same time I have opposed to the assertion of Rev. Laiu that there is a tendency to limit Lai to only Haka speaking communities which is in contrast to the realities in Chin state.. Well I do not know wheter it is political compulsion which make Zophei too become a part of Lai in Burma, but one thing is clear i.e. our Zophei forefathers had called themselves Lai since the time immemorial. In fact, the term Zophei , in the opinion of many scholars is never a tribe's name. Instead, it is a territorial/geographical name. However today many regard it as a name of particular tribe/group..Likewise Halkha, which is a name of town, later on tended to become a tribe's name. One may come across such things in magazine/article where writers tended to portrayed Halkha as a tribe..Same things in the case of Falam..What I mean to say is that our Zophei brethen in Burma are not a victim of assimilation perpetrated by Lai( as alleged by some commenters)..In other words when Lai scholars pointed out that Zophei, senthang, etc belongs to Lai, I dont think they commit such a big crime. Rather its a historical/cultural factor which make Zophei to identity themselves with Lai..well they may commit a mistake calling Maras as a Lai tribes. When I used the words 'dynamic nature of ethinicity', I tried to point out how tribal identification/ethnicity differs from individual to individual, from region to region, etc. For instances, a Paite living in Mizoram accept himself as a Mizo while his fellow tribesmen in Manipur do not..Lai in Burma would never accept to be a part of Mizo. Yet, in Mizoram many of the Lais identify themselves with Mizo.. Personally I also feel that Mara keeping in view its liguistic/cultural differences can never become a part of Kuki-Chin-Mizo( of course some Zo scholars tended ti treat MAra as a distinct tribe)..However just because Maras do not like to accept as a part of Lai/Mizo/Chin, they can not call those tribes who without any hesitation accept themselves as a part of Mizo/Laimi/chin as a victim of assimilation( hnam bo/pho leipa)..When a vaiphei accept himself as a Kuki, we can't call him a victim of a assimilation for vaipheis( whose language is closely similat with Thadou dialect) are considered as a part of Kuki-Chin tribes.. James
Flawed and waekWritten by Guest on 2008-10-23 21:45:42
James:- With your first post, you seemed to be very strong on your stance. Not your reponse is more of defencive with a flawed and weak lines. You are now beating around the bush. Being said that, if a person A accept he is B, that is his right regardless of what he claims. Unfortunately, Zophei, Lautu, Senthang popolation never accepted that they are Lais. Only some of thier plitical leaders rhtorically for thier political ideaology propengenda claim that they all are Lais. Today if you go to talk to youth scholars and critical thinkers from Zophei, Senthang community, they would say that are different from Lai tribe. They came from Thinlin-Kangaw while Lai groups (Hakha dialect speaking groups and Laizo Falams) came from the Lailun cave.
Written by Guest on 2008-10-24 00:05:26
Dear friends, 'Language' and 'Dialect' have completely different connotations, and for this please extensivley consult your dictionaries as well as resources on the internet. (Dialect is a usage or vocabulary that is characteristic of a specific group of people)which means the way in which words are used and sentences are constructed and therefore, language should not be equated with dialect. See Below from Wikipedia) A dialect (from the Greek word ´¹¬»µºÄ¿Â, dialektos) is a variety of a language that is characteristic of a particular group of the language's speakers. The term is applied most often to regional speech patterns, but a dialect may also be defined by other factors, such as social class. Therfore, Mara is not a dialect, but a language. Dr. K.Robin
How James and Pu Lian Uk Group got wrongWritten by Guest on 2008-10-24 03:17:06
Their political ideology is that by claiming we all are "Laimi", they hope the Chin groups can build unity among them --- what is called "uniformity". Ironically, the true is unity can be build and achieved only by mutual recognition and respect --- that is what is called "unity in diversity". It seems to me they are not very clear about the technical meaning and term of dialect, language, tribe, sub-tribe etc... No Mara claims that Mara is not part of Kuki-Chin-Mizo, but is one part as a group having distinct identity and nature meaning differ from Lushei, Lai, Zo, Cho etc. So, Mara is not sub-group of Lai or Lushei or Zo, but sub-group of Kuki-Chin-Mizo. MaraStable MaraStable
a replyWritten by Guest on 2008-10-24 21:30:27
I am amazed at your comment calling me as the one having a political ideology!!(ha ha....) I want to make it clear again that I did not go beyond justifying the inclusion of Zophei in Laimi maistream and how Laimi exist as an acceptable nomenclature for Hakas, Thantlangs Falams, Zopheis of Myanmar, Senthang, Zotung, etc. I have never indulge in any propaganda aiming at pushing Mara to become a part of Laimi. While condemning Pu Lian UK and other Chin scholars like Pu.L.Sakhong who also belongs to the Zophei group( Dr. Lian hmung sakhong)for their alleged attempts to assimilate the Maras into the Lai tribes, we also need to understand the huge responsibility they have shouldered as the prominent leaders of the Chins. It is natural for them to find the ways and means through which the Chins could have a better political opportunities which is possible only when there is unity and fraternity among all the ethnic groups inhabiting Chinland.. It is also a well known fact that although the term Chin is suppposed to comprises all the Zo-kindred tribes in Myamar, there is a trend among our Zos brethen in Burma to think in terms of 'Chin=Laimi'..Many of us will come across books and articles( even in India) where scholars and historians tended to put Lai/Pawi as a synonymous term to Chin...One may recall the formation of Chin National Front/Council(?) in 1960's by Pu Chinza(L)to protect the political interest of the Lais in Mizoram.. I think we don't need to be remind again and again of the simple truth that till today Zophei, Senthang,etc identify themselves as a Lai tribes..One can talk to a person hailing from Myanmar or join certain groups-Zophei Yahoo groups, Lai Forum, etc. to ascertain the actual fact..No doubt some individual may assert their separate identity. Yet, this doesn't mean that the rest try to separate themselves from Laimi mainstream... In fact it is this obsession with the Laimi that make Pu Ralboi to receive countless critism. Many among the Zopheis in Burma failed to forsee how valuable having the Bible in our language would be.. They were pre-occupied with the falsehood idea that having separate Bible amount to separation from Laimi..Yet Pu Ral boi never intends to do that.After all Lais in Falam area also have separate Bibla and still they are a part of Lai.... James
Laiu's response 2Written by Guest on 2008-10-25 01:02:08
Dear James and all, Thank you all for your gracious comments. 1. First of all, James, you do not have to “sir” me. The Queen of England has not knighted me; so I am not a “sir” (Eh!). You can just call me Laiu. 2. No one is committing any crime here. By calling Mara a sub-tribe of Lai, the Haka-Thlantlang people do not commit any crime. Nor were the Mara people commit a crime when they say that they are not a sub-tribe of Lai. 3. I deliberately superimposed the term Lai mainly on the Haka-Thlantlang (and to some extent the Falam) speaking people because these groups understand/communicate each other. I somehow hesitate to make a blanket inclusion of the Zophei and Lautu (and to some extent Zotung and Senthang) in the Lai speaking or ethnic group. The reason for this is as follow: a. The Lai hawlh (Falam-Haka-Thlantlang-Zokhua language) speaking people and Zophei people do not communicate/understand each other. In order to communicate the Zophei people had to learn Lai hawlh. This fact is confirmed to me by Lian H Sakhong (Lian Hmung), Prince of Iabao. b. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Lautu people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Lautu speaking people need to learn Lai hawlh. c. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Zotung people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Zotung people need to learn Lai hawlh. d. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Senthang people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Senthang people need to learn Lai hawlh. e. The Lai hawlh speaking people and the Mara people do not understand each other. This fact is confirmed by Mr Hmun Hre, a veteran Lai politician, now living in Lawngtlai, during the recently concluded international seminar on the Chin groups. In order for the Mara and Lai to communicate, the Mara people had to learn Lai hawlh or in India, they need to communicate each other in Mizo. f. But amazingly, Zophei, Lautu and Mara people could communicate each other without formally learning the other’s language. Communication between Zotung, Senthang, and Mara is a bit more difficult. g. If a Chapi man goes to Haka, he could communicate using his mother tongue in Lytlâh (Tlâbaoh), Khabôh, Hrâphia, up to Leita. When he reached Thlantlang and Haka he could not communicate them with his mother tongue anymore; he had to talk to them in Lai hawlh. 4. For reasons noted above, I thus included Vyhtu and Lyutu within Mara groups, with a footnote that some Vyhtu and Lyutu group in Myanmar do not identify themselves as Mara. The reason for me to include Vyhtu and Lyutu in Mara is as follow: a. Within the Mara Autonomous District Council, we have Iana and Siata, Vyhtu speaking group. They are one of the five Mara groups in India (Vyhtu, Chapi, Zyhno, Hawthai, Tlosai-Siaha). b. There are Lyutu speaking villages in the present East Maraland: La-u village, Chapy village, Potia village, and to some extent Leikâ village. These villages identify themselves as 100 percent Mara. c. However, as noted above, I did mention in my paper that majority Vyhtu and Lyutu speaking people in Myanmar do not identify themselves as Mara. 5. Let me discuss about Pu Lian Uk’s view again. When he came to this part of Chin-Kuki-Mizo, it was a Mara family who hosted him as a fellow Mara. That was the time I first met him. I met him again this time during the seminar. At one occasion, to support his point of view, he said that he himself is a Mara. But when I talked to him in Mara language, he would always talk to me in Lai hawlh. Maybe he has forgotten his Iabao reih because he has been away from his native place for a long time. I hate to think that he is ashamed of his mother tongue. At another occasion, he strongly said that Zophei and Lyutu are not Mara. So I could not take his words at face value anymore. One day he was a Mara, the next day he was not. But between me and Lian Hmung we could talk to each other in our mother tongues. We do not need to use Lai hawlh to communicate each other. When we talked to each other in our mother tongue, we could feel some closeness and intimacy. Prince Lian Hmung told me that he does not necessarily agree with Lian Uk’s view. For Prince Lian Hmung, the Mara people in Myanmar can be 100% Mara and at the same time 100% Chin. They do not have to be a branch of Lai in order to be a part of Chin. 6. So the bottom line is, if Lai equals Chin, then Mara people are a major tribe of Lai. But practical usage and connotation of the term Lai betrays this imposed meaning. Practically, Lai is regarded as a branch of Chin. In this concept, Lai covers Falam-Haka-Thlantlang and those associated with these only, not the whole Chin groups. This is the reason, we the Mara scholars want to emphasize that Lai and Mara might have been brothers many centuries ago; but today, we have grown into two separate distinct tribes. This is the ethnic realities of the present day. 7. As regards, Paite people in Mizoram, I talked to a Paite friend from Mizoram and he, with no uncertainty, told me that the Paite people in Mizoram still call themselves Paite. They even have Paite National (Tribe) Council. The Paite and Mara in Mizoram could call ourselves “Mizo” because we live in Mizoram, exactly the same way Telugu, Marathi, Bengali, Khasi, Naga, etc in India are Indians. The ball is with the Lusei/Duhlian speaking Mizo. They have unfortunately equated the Mizoness with Duhlian/Luseiness and made the Lusei/Duhlian language the Mizo language. This automatically alienates the Mara people. As you know better than me, the Mara language and Mizo language today are two different languages, and thus speakers of these languages belong to two different people groups. No one mentions about Lusei anymore; it is now Mara, Lai, Mizo, etc. In reality, Lusei/Duhlian equal to Mizo, but Mara is not equal to Mizo. Having said that, if the term Mizo is used to include all the Chin-Kuki groups, then of course the Mara people too are Mizo. But reality and daily life many a time betray grand visions and ideas. Thus, if your name is not Thanga/Thangi, if you do not know how to speak “in dam em?) properly, then you are not a Mizo dik tak. 8. For me, I would prefer a Nagaland model. Angami or Ao are 100% Angami and Ao respectively; but at the same time they are 100% Naga. They are Ao Naga, Sema Naga, etc. In the same way, we could also be Mara Mizo, Paite Mizo, Lai Mizo, Lusei Mizo, etc. But it is now too late to go back to this model. So the way forward is to recognize and accept the present ethnic realities that Mara and Mizo are two different tribes. But we can be good brothers and neighbors. We can live side by side harmoniously and peacefully. We can help each other in times of need. Above all, we are Chin-Kuki brothers. 9. We can agree to disagree. But at the same time we must keep on engaging with one another and with the subject/topic even if we could not reach a point of one size fits all. Let us continue to talk. By the way, if you are in Shillong, it would be good if we can meet. It will be wonderful to share each other’s views and ideas. Laiu Fachhai
To JamesWritten by Guest on 2008-10-25 04:12:55
Lautu speaking people need to learn Lai hawlh. c. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Zotung people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Zotung people need to learn Lai hawlh. d. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Senthang people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Senthang people need to learn Lai hawlh. e. The Lai hawlh speaking people and the Mara people do not understand each other. This fact is confirmed by Mr Hmun Hre, a veteran Lai politician, now living in Lawngtlai, during the recently concluded international seminar on the Chin groups. In order for the Mara and Lai to communicate, the Mara people had to learn Lai hawlh or in India, they need to communicate each other in Mizo. f. But amazingly, Zophei, Lautu and Mara people could communicate each other without formally learning the other’s language. Communication between Zotung, Senthang, and Mara is a bit more difficult. g. If a Chapi man goes to Haka, he could communicate using his mother tongue in Lytlâh (Tlâbaoh), Khabôh, Hrâphia, up to Leita. When he reached Thlantlang and Haka he could not communicate them with his mother tongue anymore; he had to talk to them in Lai hawlh. “ 3)In terms of clan names, I will put very briefly in this way: Of course many of the clan names among Lai and LMSZZ families are same, so is among other Chin groups Zo, Matu, and Lushei. Having same clan name does not necessarily mean that they are same tribe. If that is the case, if not all, but most of Chin groups would have been under ONE TRIBE. I will not call Dr. Lian Sakhong as a politician. He is in my opinion more of a scholar and a political activist. Yes, his writing included LMSZZ under the Lai group. However, he did not give adequate and convincing arguments to support his imposition of LMSZZ under Lai. Perhaps he just did that in view that his writing was to focus on the “Origin of Chin” but not about tribes. As Dr. Laiu has said, Dr. Lain Hmung of course agreed that LMSZZ could be excluded from Lai. Hopefully, he will revise his paper and writings in future versions. It is unfortunate and disgusting to see that members of LMSZZ especially Zopheis and Senthangs have systematically Lainized (Hakhanized) by means of Baptist mission work and partly political administration. Have you ever seriously think about this one: were LMSZZ given a chance to remain under one administrative either under one township or district and one Christian Mission since 1900, then their common language could have been Mara (tlosai)? We were not given this chance. That is why many of our LMSZZ community members included you were easily tempted to believe that “our Zophei forefathers had called themselves Lai since the time immemorial.” The reason is very simple: you are systematically Lai-nized. Perhaps, it is not too late for you(Zophei) and me(Mara) to rise up again and stand with our true identity.No doubt, democracy based on genuine federalism would help you a lot to restore your true identity. StableMara
repost: To JamesWritten by Guest on 2008-10-25 04:18:55
For some reasons, some texts are missing in my previous post. Here is the complete one: James: You probably are not a politician. You supported the unstable position of Pu Lian Uk on Chin groups string especially Lai and Mara. That is the reason why you were not excluded from “those rhetoric political ideology” that never enjoyed logical and historical support. This, by no means, is to conclude that we do not give respect for these politicians for their works and sacrifices. At the same time, as you have rightly pointed out, these prominent politicians have huge responsibilities to Chin groups including Lautu, Mara, Senthang, Zophei, and Zotung (LMSZZ). If they do not change their stance, but rather continue to assert your Zopheis and Maras under Lai, that would be their legacy and they have the responsibility for that. Weather or not the younger generations of LMSZZ would forgive those unfair assertion is up to them. Interestingly, these politicians are of LMSZZ! Now let me tell you more visibly what factors these politicians premised when they claim LMSZZ is the sub-tribe of Lai are: 1) Folklores, epics or hlado etc. 2) similarity of Language 3) Having same Clan names 1)Folklores, epics or hlado: regards to this factor, MaraSuperstar has put his argument convincingly like this: “Maras sing Hlado and Hlapui in Lautu (Azao) language. Does this mean Mara is a sub-tribe of Lautu? I don't think so. Even Lusei's hlado and hlapuis are all Lai. It also doesn't mean they are sub-tribe of Lai. Rather it is found out that usually people tend to sing Hlado and Hlapui in a language everyone may not understand as it is also in religious practices visible in some religion. Eg. Hindu priests praying in Sanskrit - a language not everyone understands. Such practices are common. Zopheis must have done it the same thing. It doesn't necessarily mean that such songs will have to be composed in our mother language. If your argument is true, then Mizos(Luseis) too as the sub-tribe of Lai. Why Lais are so obsessed with assimilating smaller tribes - clubbing them all under their wings? But if they use the same stick with Mizos, they will laught at them. So, their scholars should have better check some new trick for their argument to stand tall. “ 2)In terms of Language, Dr. Laiu has adequately and convincingly put like this: “a. The Lai hawlh (Falam-Haka-Thlantlang-Zokhua language) speaking people and Zophei people do not communicate/understand each other. In order to communicate the Zophei people had to learn Lai hawlh. This fact is confirmed to me by Lian H Sakhong (Lian Hmung), Prince of Iabao. b. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Lautu people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Lautu speaking people need to learn Lai hawlh. c. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Zotung people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Zotung people need to learn Lai hawlh. d. The Lai hawlh speaking people and Senthang people do not understand each other. In order to communicate, the Senthang people need to learn Lai hawlh. e. The Lai hawlh speaking people and the Mara people do not understand each other. This fact is confirmed by Mr Hmun Hre, a veteran Lai politician, now living in Lawngtlai, during the recently concluded international seminar on the Chin groups. In order for the Mara and Lai to communicate, the Mara people had to learn Lai hawlh or in India, they need to communicate each other in Mizo. f. But amazingly, Zophei, Lautu and Mara people could communicate each other without formally learning the other’s language. Communication between Zotung, Senthang, and Mara is a bit more difficult. g. If a Chapi man goes to Haka, he could communicate using his mother tongue in Lytlâh (Tlâbaoh), Khabôh, Hrâphia, up to Leita. When he reached Thlantlang and Haka he could not communicate them with his mother tongue anymore; he had to talk to them in Lai hawlh. “ 3)In terms of clan names, I will put very briefly in this way: Of course many of the clan names among Lai and LMSZZ families are same, so is among other Chin groups Zo, Matu, and Lushei. Having same clan name does not necessarily mean that they are same tribe. If that is the case, if not all, but most of Chin groups would have been under ONE TRIBE. I will not call Dr. Lian Sakhong as a politician. He is in my opinion more of a scholar and a political activist. Yes, his writing included LMSZZ under the Lai group. However, he did not give adequate and convincing arguments to support his imposition of LMSZZ under Lai. Perhaps he just did that in view that his writing was to focus on the “Origin of Chin” but not about tribes. As Dr. Laiu has said, Dr. Lain Hmung of course agreed that LMSZZ could be excluded from Lai. Hopefully, he will revise his paper and writings in future versions. It is unfortunate and disgusting to see that members of LMSZZ especially Zopheis and Senthangs have systematically Lainized (Hakhanized) by means of Baptist mission work and partly political administration. Have you ever seriously think about this one: were LMSZZ given a chance to remain under one administrative either under one township or district and one Christian Mission since 1900, then their common language could have been Mara (tlosai)? We were not given this chance. That is why many of our LMSZZ community members included you were easily tempted to believe that “our Zophei forefathers had called themselves Lai since the time immemorial.” The reason is very simple: you are systematically Lai-nized. Perhaps, it is not too late for you(Zophei) and me(Mara) to rise up again and stand with our true identity.No doubt, democracy based on genuine federalism would help you a lot to restore your true identity. StableMara
Quick response to JamesWritten by Guest on 2008-10-25 05:11:50
James, again you are beating around the bush. James: After all Lais in Falam area also have separate Bibla and still they are a part of Lai.... My response: This is for this reason, Falam or Laizo dialect should be categorized as one of Lai dialects. Falam and Hakha are dialects of Lai. So they could understand each other without having to learnt one another. That is not the case with Mara and Lai. Dr. Laiu has presented with well reasoning on this part. That is why Mara is langauge and not a dialect. Falam(laizo) and Hakha are dialects of Lai. This reality is in support of the fact that they all are LAI.
Mara Superstar response to JamesWritten by Guest on 2008-10-25 06:51:34
@James:I am amazed at your comment calling me as the one having a political ideology!!(ha ha....) My Response: Bro. we do not say that. We say that those who have interpreted the history of Chin this way are doing so due to political compulsion and someone like you are supporting such views. You need to look more carefully. Scholars too have limitations. So, it is not a laughing matter. Please think rationally. When Laihmo (Dr. Lian Hmung Sakhong, a Zophei) and Dr. Laiu, a Mara communicate to each other in their mother tongue do you see something? Laihawlh speaking people will never understand that. So, think about that properly. American English and Queen's English are two dialects of English understood by both the parties except few different usage of terms. @James: In fact it is this obsession with the Laimi that make Pu Ralboi to receive countless critism. Many among the Zopheis in Burma failed to forsee how valuable having the Bible in our language would be.. They were pre-occupied with the falsehood idea that having separate Bible amount to separation from Laimi..Yet Pu Ral boi never intends to do that.After all Lais in Falam area also have separate Bibla and still they are a part of Lai.... My Response: Hm, Rev. Dr. RalB Boi did not try to separate Zopheis from the Lai mainstream, but he felt that having Bible on their own - Zophei language will be more effective for believers - so he did. Meaning Zophei is not just a dialect. It is a language too in that sense. After all, if it is a dialect of Lai, Zopheis of Siata and Iana too must be able to understand Laihawlh as much as they do Zophei language in their hearts and minds. I hope you to recall what you said earlier(the first post) to make the conversation makes sense. Dr. Ral Boi does not have political agenda but he just wanted to have Bible in the native language - which is not a dialect of Lai. This also proves that Zophei is not a Dialect of Lai, that also proves once again that sub-tribe tag given to Zophei by Lais too has been accepted by Zopheis because their number is too insignificant and it is purely due to political compulsion. We don't need to be angry, but we must try to make logical and reasonable points to convey our stand in this matter. - Mara Superstar.
conclusionWritten by Guest on 2008-10-29 21:02:50
Its not surprising to come across various comments asserting the unigue and special identity of Maras different from Chin(Lai) and Mizo. Its a well known fact among the people of Chin state and MIZORAM that Maras will everywhere try to separate themselves from the mainstream. Of course for a well-legitimate reason. In Mizoram, our Marang brothers will indulge in the the theory of 'Mizo=Lusei(dulian) speaking communities' and called the individuals(belong to Lai, Paite, Bawm, thadou,Zyphe, Biate,etc.tribe) who readily accepts to be a part of Mizo as a victims of assimilation or being Mizonized.Its unfortunate that in stead of trying to become a part of mainstream, our mara tribesmen are still living in the world of self-imposed isolation. In Chin state, these same people will propagate the theory of Lai(Chin)=Haka-thantlang-falam) and try to instigate other non-haka Lai sub-groups-Zyphe,Senthang, Zytung,etc. to distance themselves from the Laimi mainstream. Yet, they would not succeed. Still the existing trend in Chin state is even non-haka speaking tribe are an integral part of Laimi. Its rather an act of hypocrisy on the part of maras to critisize Haka-thaitlang for the alleged absorbtion of Zyphe,zytung,etc in to the laimi fold, since the maras themselves practice the same. Some of the MAarang scholars will portrayed Mara as a major tribe consisting of many sub-tribes-tlosai, chapi, Zyhno, lytu, saithang, etc. Lytu, Zyphe, Zytung and saithang will never ever become a part of Mara. Please dont try to project yourself as a major tribe like naga, kuki, etc.We have to accept the reality of being a small tribe. Many scholars think that the inhabtants of Siata-Ena are a part of Marang(Mara) which is far from the truth. Well It will make no difference whether Zyphe(Zophei) become a part of Marang or not for we are politically insignificant. But the we have every right to exist as a different tribe from Mara. We may become a part of Mizo-Chin(Lai) but not Mara(our brothers).Among Zyphe some may claim to be a part of Mara. YEt they do not represent the voice of majority Zyphe. Some scholars often assert that Zyphe, Lutu and mara could communicate each other which is why Zyphe, lytu, saithang are a part of Mara. The Maras staying near Siata-Ena villages may understand Zyphe languages but majority of the maras will not understand 60% A typical Mara may not understand the following sentences without knowing Lai/Lusei: 'Marang lung haly, ca-e thi lai ly...Ka khawrawh a ha..Ka lung a tling thlang, Ze tihta maw ama cawh ka hmu a?..Batui na e ca mawh?.. The very fact that Siata-Ena and Zyphes in Chin hills have their own Gospel hymn book is a clear indication of how Zyphe never accept to be a sub-group of Mara. One may find funny when we the Zophei assert separate identity. Yet, the ability to exist as a separate community does not depend upon on population, politics, etc. Our Zo-brother in MAnipur-Simte,Gangte, Tiddim, and other tribe-Chawte, Monsang, MAyon still exist as a tribe. Even in Mizoram small communities like Bawms, Pang, etc still maintain their identity. Our Vytu/Vawngtu one of Zyphe clan may be a part of Maras but not Zyphes as a whole james
correctionWritten by Guest on 2008-10-29 21:06:05
upon on should be read as a upon Our vytu should be read as the Vytus Accept not accepts(Dulian speaking communities)
Mara/Zophei: A food for understandingWritten by Guest on 2008-10-29 21:13:10
James, Mara unlike Zophei is not a dialect of Lai; the very reason everyone keeps commenting on ur comments in English (and not Mara) to ensure you understand the views of the Maras!I absolutely have no idea how the Lai says 'yes' or 'No', something that I should know had Mara been a dialect of Lai. Thank you!
To James from Mara SuperstarWritten by Guest on 2008-10-30 01:44:04
@James said: In Chin state, these same people will propagate the theory of Lai(Chin)=Haka-thantlang-falam) and try to instigate other non-haka Lai sub-groups-Zyphe,Senthang, Zytung,etc. to distance themselves from the Laimi mainstream. Yet, they would not succeed. Still the existing trend in Chin state is even non-haka speaking tribe are an integral part of Laimi. My Response: Read the following from J. Mark in yahoo groups of Chins in Myanmar: -------------------------- Lais, Zomi vs Chins In time of unity, the youngsters should be awakening developing the idea of Lais, Zomies equal to Chins sways us to be disunity in our society. We all come across to extend the term we often use according to our local dialects Lairam, Zogam etc. to refer our Land. I believe many people are coming along with the idea of Lais equal to Chin for unity instead of findings the fact. It¢s a failure method to be well established unity in Chin society. Assuredly, our respected elders were already failed because they loved unity. As we all know, Zomi Baptist Convention should be Chin Baptist Convention. Of course, unity should be national interest within or after the period of struggling for freedom from fears. However, we may come across with the facts and the truth. Lais, Zomi could not be equated to Chin. In Chin, there are Lais, Zomies, Mizos, Chos etc. In other word, Chin is a root and Lais, Zomi etc. are the branches. The root and the branches can not be equal even they are the same tree. Lais, Zomi, Cho etc are one in Chin but different identities were already born after we were resettled to different places in centuries ago. Our forefather used the term Lairam when they denoted land. It¢s saved the local people used the term Lairam which means land of lais, and the local people could mean the whole Chinland. However, the term Lairam could cover only Lais¢ area, not the whole Chinland an officially. Local people used Laimi when they refered their identity. They could mean all the Chin people but it can not be covered all Chins because Lais are only one group in Chin State. In ancient time, lack of infrastructure and communication local people used the term Lairam like shrimp theory has told. There are many lakes along the river, but unwise shrimp thought it lake is the biggest. There are many places or areas that we are given different names Lairam, Zogam, Choram etc. in Chin State according the people are occupied. Lais, Zomi etc. are not equal to Chin. Lais and Zomi are not the same but they are siblings in Chin. We, youngsters should aware of it for restore our society. J.Mark -------------------------- You supported Laimis' expansion idea and accepted Zophei in Burmas as sub-tribe Laimi speaking dialect of Lai, but you denied the sub-tribe tag of Mara in India, so this is double standard and different yardstick you are using. Maras do not put anyone under sub-tribe tag but sub-group of Mara. Tlosai-Siaha, Ngiaphia-Sizo-Chapi, Heima-Zyhno, Hawthai-Lochei and Vytu. If you think Zophei is a dialect then you and your Laihawlh brothers will be able to understand each other without having to speak their language. Dialects of English are American English, Australian English, Queen's English, etc. Dialects of Laihawlh are Haka, Thangtlang, Zokhua, etc. These speakers do not need to speak second language to communicate. Clearly those are dialects. However, Zopheis need to speak second language called Laihawlh to communite with them. They can't speak to Laihawlh native speakers in Zophei, this tells us that Zophei is different from Laihawlh. To me, if Zophei says they are distinct and separate tribe, I wish them good luck, size, population, etc are not the yardstick to determine this, but it is the language. But even though you speak different language and still accept it as dialect of Lai, it is laughable, only ignorance on Zophei's part. Zophei is not a dialect of Lai. I hope Zophei brothers will realize this, even though they are not much in population, why should Lais manipulate them? As you can see the above writing of J. Mark, not only Laimis but they are competing with Zomis, another Zo brothers Chin state. In such struggle, when a different and distinct one like Zophei said you are Laimi, they are being used as pawns by Laimis to add their strength in their fight against Zomis. This is sad. Why should Zomi or Laimi assert such? We are all under Chin. In fact, most scholars do not use Kuki-Chin-Mizo, instead they use Kuki-Chin and equate Mizo, Lai, Zomi, and all other smaller tribes are part of this Kuki-Chin of which we are also part of it. (Read George Bedell's article on 'Agreement in Mara' posted in this website. So, do not accept if you are forced to accept those claims. If it not being trying to separate ourselves from the mainstream, it is telling them the truth of our identity being unique and distinct which is the plan of God. SO, dont jst make conclusion, let's learn and correct our myopic vision - then this discussion becomes constructive. I hope this helps you understand some. Once Burma becomes Independence, Laihawlh will not become the official language of Chin state either, nor Zomis, these two will continue to fight, for the sake of globalisation, let's hope they will adopt English. For smaller tribes it is always problematic since they need to learn many languages. God bless Zophei, Mara, Mizo, Lai, Zomi - all are ONE and they don't have a common name for now. Chin? Kuki? Let's keep praying. - Mara Superstar.
To James from MaraStableWritten by Guest on 2008-10-30 08:33:04
Bro James: If Mara ever wanted to promote Mara language to Maranize others, we could have done this to our neighbors easily especially to our mission fields among Khumis, Lemros, Dais, etc. Potentially, we could have also projected to bring our very close brothers Lautu, Zophei, Senthang and Zotung into the Mara fold. The true is Mara had never done that and will never do that in future. If we ever wished, we can remain under one administrative body once democracy prevails in Burma, but only with the consent of all parties. Thanks to the Chinland Constitution that allows and accommodates people to form their respective administrative body either based on geographical or language closeness or both. LMZZS has a good potential to remain under one body, but that will happen only if the all parties agree with the consent of the people of their respective lands. Zophei people have their own rights to chose where they would - want to be, if they ever choose to stay away from her brothers Mara, Luatu etc. and be with Lai, that also would be their own choice. Absolutely their own choice. Mara will never force Zophei to be part of Mara. Mara will always give the highest respect to his brother Zophei and its choice. If all other close brothers have chosen to stay with other neighbors, I hope Mara will be just happy to remain in one administrative body on its own like Lai, Matu, Cho, Zomi etc will do. Please do not accuse your brothers Maras of being isolating or alienating themselves from other brothers. Our little distant brothers have done more than enough to the Mara which directly affected the land and keep Mara way behind them in terms of human and area developments. This one is little bit sensitive, so I will tell you more about this if time permits. Again, please do not afraid of your brothers - Maras. At the same time please note that one person will not decide for the fate of Zophei people, but the people of Zophei will decide where they would want to be. God bless you and bless my Zophei brothers. - StableMara
Written by Guest on 2008-10-31 02:44:14
Dear Rev.Dr.Laiu Fachhai, Dr.K Robin, Dr.K .Zohra nata comments phapa hlupi avaw rohthei penawh zydua, Nama hnota alyna bie rei awpa hlupi eima bah thla haw na, eima pahno pasia beileipa Marapa chana doh ta zy miachho thei haw ei chita arona hmeiseipa acha, new generation avaw y awpa zy chata chhao he he lobo pha ngaita kawpa vaw cha haw bata Marasaw zy chipho pitlohpa hawhta eima chhih haina lathloh liazy chhao he pakha tata eima vaw hmo thai laih lyma haw ba awpa khacha eibeiseih kaw. Nama hmotaophana zy he Khazopa ta byhna vao via lyma sala Marapa saw dei chaleipa awta chipho hropa zydua chhao likaw apahno thaina athei thaina chiza thaina avaw pahnosa khai ha awpa eibeiseih. Nama zydua cho liata alyna bie reih awpa he hlupi eima bah thlahapa acha, Khazopa ta nama hmotaophana zydua choh lia heta byhna chatobie via laih lyma chyu mawh ei sy. AMEN Sasa Armenia
hcumizoWritten by Guest on 2009-01-07 23:30:34
University of Hyderabad Mizo students blog ah ka lo la chhawng ve tawp mai. Hope u don't mind.
Lai should not dominate other non lai grWritten by Guest on 2009-01-08 21:44:51
The lais are only from Hakha and Thantlang and only to some part of falam. they will always try to seduce other non lai groups to become part of lai so it very important that mara,zotung,zophei,zokhua,lautu and to some extent of non lai groups to be well in education, knowledge, communication with other Chin(ZO)in order to know that one group is trying to dominate other groups. Alan..Siyin...
Lian Sakhong Book's review by VumsonWritten by Guest on 2009-01-09 04:45:57
I like reading books and of all the self acclaimed books, this book author by Lian Sakhong is the easiest to define or know that IT IS TOTALLY A JOKE. The books reflects the sincerity and mentality and ethics of the Author when it comes to Zo-Chin social politics. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=chin+identity+book+review+by+vumson&btnG=Search Plz check check this site and click the "in search of chin identity by" I hope vumson's review on this book is fair and academic which is contrary to the author of this book Plz don't waste valuable time on issues written on such a low ethical book. What Lian Sakong did is he wanted this CHIN Land Title and so he put some history pages together and still the book wasn't thick so he added Christianity and so he got a thick book to make a name CHIN LAND. God Bless My brothers. if u want an copy of this book plz add this gmail
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Written by Guest on 2009-01-09 04:52:04
Dear Friends.. I am from Burma where the government use this Chin Identity for Zo-Chin People. Let me assure you that Although people don't reject is all of them know that it is not their true identity(as every nation has it's own identity)and let me assure you that the only groups which try so hard and fail so badly promoting Laimi group is the only Main group supporting Chin. It is not because they like it but because they know on The Majority Zo will have a win so they chose Chin. Just wanna know the nature of Lai people arrogance, deceit, says one thing and then says another, fake, all known to all Chin-Zo. In Burma Lais are not popular among the Chin-Zo. You can't always Lie. i would like to change the name Laimi to LEIME. sorry if it hurt some of my bros but if there were ten brothers and if two of them are deceit to the others i would rather stick with the rest 8.
Lais Are Not Popular in BurmaWritten by Guest on 2009-01-09 05:03:01
In Burma we have a called Kha Sa Ya in short meaning Chin-Zo students association. what i want to say is when all parts of Chin-Zo students meet and make a vote The Southern Chin-Zo don't give their vote to Lai(Hakha_Thantlang)but give their votes to the Thedim Group. What i mean is Chins-Zo know so much about lai that they know who to trust and who not to. In the Yearly Kha Sa Ya fresher welcome Ceremony each township shows it's own dance such as Thantlang-Hakha, Falam, Matupi, Thedim-Tongzang, Asho, Cho, Khumi. What happened was the Lai purposed they didn't want to go out with township names but Lai to present also Falam and Matu to promote Lai and eradicate Matu and Falam so the Falam and Matu rejected even though they define them as Lai (in real only small parts) I have so many Hakha, falam and thangtlang friends and they tell me that they like the idea of Mizo and duhlien cause it is close to their dialects. What i want to say is the Lai self acclaimed doctrine is not necessarily popular even in the Hakha and Falam on normal residents but it is the making of the politicians who have good grounds on CNF and other chin politics group.
Why Did Arrogant Lai Changed To ChinWritten by Guest on 2009-01-09 05:13:37
My father told me that there was a time when Chin-Zo students and elders fight on issues such as the common identity should be Zo and Lai so on. What i want to tell you is look the people who stand for Zo they truly believed Zo is the closest thing to national identity for 3 million people so they went for it just because of NATIONALISM and not localism. and still now they are not changing. you can see a lot of Zomi(mainly Burma Chin)social and political organizations because they sincerely lookded for one and believed that they had found one in terms of agreeable logic and history. And the Zo groups had to fight the Lai(hakha-thangtlang)for that. NOW LOOK time has changed but there are still Zos although because of national unity they don't say about the identity that much but look at the Lais. Lai doctrine was a trick, lie, deceit. Lai=Chin and Zo is arrogant claim that they themselves understand it is not right and at the same time fighting for it? We Zo belived that it is the nearest thing that's why we went for it but the lais they didn't believe it but they went for it now look lais are gaining grounds on all sort of CHIN social and political association. If they believed that lai was so right why didn't they form Lai Groups for Burma Chin-Zo Campaign. because they didn't believe that lai= chin-zo but why did they went for lai=chin. IT is in their NATURE TO DOMINATE ALL THE CHIN-ZO. it is same as trying to sell people a cheap pie that it is expensive and so on with lies. the Zos today still stick to Zos bu the lai have dominated the Chin social and politics association.Lais are born to deciet.they say lai=chin and they shout lai but they played as chin. They are failing in everyways trying to lai everyone. When Burma have democracy the only lai lef will be Hakha and Thantlang. Alan..siyin
Why Did Arrogant Lai Changed To ChinWritten by Guest on 2009-01-09 05:13:37
My father told me that there was a time when Chin-Zo students and elders fight on issues such as the common identity should be Zo and Lai so on. What i want to tell you is look the people who stand for Zo they truly believed Zo is the closest thing to national identity for 3 million people so they went for it just because of NATIONALISM and not localism. and still now they are not changing. you can see a lot of Zomi(mainly Burma Chin)social and political organizations because they sincerely lookded for one and believed that they had found one in terms of agreeable logic and history. And the Zo groups had to fight the Lai(hakha-thangtlang)for that. NOW LOOK time has changed but there are still Zos although because of national unity they don't say about the identity that much but look at the Lais. Lai doctrine was a trick, lie, deceit. Lai=Chin and Zo is arrogant claim that they themselves understand it is not right and at the same time fighting for it? We Zo belived that it is the nearest thing that's why we went for it but the lais they didn't believe it but they went for it now look lais are gaining grounds on all sort of CHIN social and political association. If they believed that lai was so right why didn't they form Lai Groups for Burma Chin-Zo Campaign. because they didn't believe that lai= chin-zo but why did they went for lai=chin. IT is in their NATURE TO DOMINATE ALL THE CHIN-ZO. it is same as trying to sell people a cheap pie that it is expensive and so on with lies. the Zos today still stick to Zos bu the lai have dominated the Chin social and politics association.Lais are born to deciet.they say lai=chin and they shout lai but they played as chin. They are failing in everyways trying to lai everyone. When Burma have democracy the only lai lef will be Hakha and Thantlang. Alan..siyin
Lai =Chin NOOOO !!!!!!!!!!Written by Guest on 2009-01-09 05:32:24
Dear Friends,, Lai=Chin????? Shame on Arrogant Localism and Long Live Families(siyin,mara,zophei,zotung ect) and Nationalism (Zo) Lai is only Hakha and Thantlang People and some extent to Falam. It is not even clear the aboves are true lais or just simple being manipulated by lai chief years ago.But now they seem to be OK with lai. But from that outer space non or Lai. the non-lai living close to Laimi such as zotung(they themselves say they are ZO),zohphei, lautu are manipulated to become laimi for baseless excuses such as Laimi Loyalty Politics( CNF= popular known Laimi National Front ). Lian Uk is not a historian not a academic even not a true politician but he knows how to STEAL place. The Lian Uk say lai=Chin is just to counter the Zo nationalism for 3 million people. In Burma everyone knows there is no such thing as Lai=Chin. It is self promoted by Hakha arrogant social type and in Chin-Zo seems to be the only family that has that type.
Written by Guest on 2009-01-09 05:42:54
Dear Fris,, i think i have said much about Lai politicians true picture. I hope every Chin-Zo family can improve their dialects and then let's progress on nationalism.
Two wrongs don't make RIGHTWritten by Guest on 2009-01-09 05:54:02
Hi Bro. Alan (Siyin), To us, you are the same as someone like Pu Lian Uk, Lian Sakhong, etc who are promoting Lai. You are also promoting as if Zo is equal to Chin. Zo = Siyin, Teddim, perhaps that includes the so-called Mizos. Senthang, Lautu, Mara, Khumi, Zophei, Zotung, Hmar, etc will never accept such claims. All those who came out from the CAVE are collectively CHIN (Kuki-Chin). ZO, Mizo, Zomi, Lai, Mara, Senthang, Zotung, Asho Chin, Khumi, etc together makes up that Chin. - Mara Superstar
Exchange views and understandingWritten by Guest on 2009-01-09 23:07:48
Dear Bros.... Thz for telling your view and the current situation.Yes i am zo nationalist and yes promoting Zo. But knowing that every one has their right to call whatever they think is suit as a National Name.In your case it is Chin and in my case it is Zo and lesser extent to Chin. Mizoram emerging and Large paite community accepting as Zomi and Wide Chin familes open to ideas of ZO, i sincerely was thinking the national identity quest has been won. and Zo(meaning Victory)has got the price and the only ones left arguing are the Thado(kuki) and Lai(hakha)but it seems the natural rugged mountains will always divde the brothers of many issues since we don't have the advantage of frequent contacts as other nations does. Let me introduce myself plz. It's more about knowing eachother rather than blur blur. So. My name is Alan and my family is Siyin. The Capital city rangoon is my birth place and as my father is a diplomat i have been to New Delhi and Bangkok for years. As a result i can't even speak my Siyin Dialect. :D:D bad for me but i can speak English,Thai,French.Now I am trying to apply student visa at the Australia Embassy.AND i am really excited to know my Brothers who are living in a Democracy India and further more trying to exchange views on Chin-Zo. HOnesty, basicly i am telling what i know and what i think is right as logical and historic truths and i like to know what ur views and in the end i hope we will be good brothers from different country.we should be. we don't need to agree but we need to know what one thinks. As you have already know my views based on Vumson's book and i want to tell u what i and most ZO thinks how ZO came to be the cloest thing to nationalism and not localism like (LAI, i really think it is different) and then explaning chin and kuki as i know. And hopeyou can shed some lights on these issues for me. I still Belive in ZO and unlest someone give me a really good explantion why it should not be ZO.I want to start with ZO. even if u have heard of this plz think about it. Zo (mizo and zomi, is there difference btw English people and people of enlgish?? so plz accept they are same ) Doesn't nesscarily has to be the nationalist name for 3 million people. It has Weak Points like some Part of Zo-Chin doesn't have that sort of Zo word in their family or community like u have mentioned senthang and so on and that these families would never accept ZO. From what i have known about families accepting Zo are Mizoram 1)Lusie ( Mizo is not LUSIE!!! don't bye that cheap ) 2)Hmar (i heard they accpet as Mizo, i am not a hmar so...) 3)Lai ( probally lai, no clue) 4)paite ( it's so childish Zomi and Mizo is same ZO plz don't manupilate zo,zomi and mizo, won't work) 5)Mara ( Chin, since u said no ZO, but i have overcome some maras who are open to ZO view ) Manipur 6)paite ( Zomi and Mizo same, plz no more kids stuff,) 7)Thado (no zomi but i heard no problem with Mizo,, they call themselves Kuki for political gains) Burma ( I might know better cause i am from Burma...well i think so..logicaly right ?? ) 1)thedim-tonzang (Zomi) 2)falam ( Seriously only some parts are Lai,and they have wide open mind for Mizo and duhlien dialect) 3)Hakha-Thantlang ( Chin,lai) 4)zotung (Chin,zotung told me they were zo, contradicting ur views) 5)senthang,lautu,zophei etc ( Chin ?? i have no clue ) 6)Khumi ( mro(masho) well Chin is ok for them but they are open to Zo views) 7)Cho ( Chin and Cho but they are so wide open to Zo views) Asho ( Chin and Asho but they are so wide open to zo views) Well i don't know if u agree with this and hope u reply and exchange views to better understand distant brothers. (Lusie and Mizoram Case) Laldenga wanted the new state to name LUSIE State but the government suggested that would not be right since there are other familes and they suggested Mizo.There were lots of other families in MNF.I think the logic is pretty ok. don't u agree. But Lusie with Duhlient Dialect forming the vast majority simply and naturally try to dominate others in the State.And The Term Mizo has become the VICTIM !!. aint it true ? Lusie and Duhlien Doesn't Own MIZO. they are just a BIG Family with common language. Everybody owns Mizo that's the reason the state is Named Mizoram. Don't let a bunch of lusie make u feel outplace.it might have been intentionally. U know better than me since u r in Mizoram right? the lusie family are moving so fast ahead with the duhlien dialect that they pushed aside other familes by simply saying that they are not MIZO ?? that is outright lie !! bro. everyone has the right. i am mizo but notlusie. Even if u don't like ZO don't let the lusie/duhlient fool u that Mizo is dulien. u should know better.it won't fool me. am i wrong ? a little back ground theory on Zo well we were from parts of tibet or china. everyone living in Asia has to being from mongol or tibet or china. it's all the same geographic. how are we gonna trace us back to china with thousands of years back and no writing but unreliable folk tales. then i am more interested in Burma. it's alot more practical. there is no such people as or God didn't make people such as MOUNTAIN MAN OR SO.every nation has a piece of mountain and a piece of plain land. first the plain chins. Asho(ZO) now numbering around atleast 50000 but no proper account and hundreds of thousands are Burmanized. A chin-Zo in Burma knows that and sees that. the burmazined Asho(ZO) can be seen everywhere from the west of ayarwaddy river. Father SEngramo (??) in early 1850 wrote that in Pyay there were Hundred thousands of Chin calling themselves Sho or Asho.we don't see them now. but we see their decendants speaking burmese in a ASHO(CHIN)tone that a normal burmese can't understand.try to imagine that the low lands of west of irrwayddy,there were thousands of Asho(chin)villages now burmanized. from there we moved to the mountains. that is mintat-kanpatlat (CHO) and from Kalay groups that is Ciim Nuai (Zo) and lailung (lai) and there are some more routes but i don't know hehe.there must be.cho and asho are the same nation with close dialect. i met an ASHO girl who can't pronounce the word ASHO but instead she keep saying SHO. we laughed.:D she said it depends on which part of district u r living in. IT"S CLEARRR... ASHO..CHO..ZO..YO..Jo(MIZO,ZOMI) are all the same nation with different dialects and tones. then there are YAW people. can u imagine how come a powerful people like Burmese can't call the Yaw burmese but Yaw Bama. the yaws are assimated like the Ashos but they somehow still retaiend the corrupt name.Burmese is a strong nation, they are trying to assimlate others, others can't assimilate them. that's the case with Yaw.
mistakesWritten by Guest on 2009-01-09 23:12:43
the asho girl keep saying CHO.. i want to explain more.. if u would allow.nice knowing u bros.like u said we can agree to disagree. after all zo and chin aint' gonna divide us but this rugged mountains are so bad.
Can I Continue ?? He He :DWritten by Guest on 2009-01-10 03:09:54
Sometimes i think that,if the Asho were not burmanized there would be around 500,000 at least and so the zo-cho-asho-yo stand would have been more justified in practical terms.Now it's impossible.the Families in Rankine as i know Asho families, Khumi(masho,Mro) Families and there are still families that are not include in that category and i met a lot of those families in Rangoon. The funny thing was although they were far from Hakha, hey knew Hakha tried to dominate the other families. very odd.there is a good percentage of Zo-Chin in Rankine. under many family names.Probably Asho-Masho(mro, it's simple Rakhineized, they go for R tone). So Zo-Chin do have a huge population around 3 million. what i want to say is it somehow started with SHO with a vast population migrating north west to the Hills now Mizoram, manipur , Bangal and so called Chin-Sate. then on the hills it somehow changed to CHO-YO-ZO-JO just different tongues. Then there are families such as Lai and Falam and Mara and to other extent( according to what u said)has said to not have relation to Zo-yo-cho. i think how come this Vast populated A-sho migration when reached the hills they disappeared.I think it is simply some families adopted new names. they were so fond of new names such as Lai(local),Kuki(outsider's call).But the vast part remains as ZO-Cho-Sho-Asho. it is the same. no doubt.Actually if the Asho population had around the original number as it should have had, then i would go for SHO and not Zo. I need to know more about Mara. plz tell me bros. on a modern interpretation ZO means Win/victory/conqueror, not a bad name ? let me plz add that there is no nation such as HILL nation.some people want to denote ZO for hill. ZO is not perfect...that is true. but from my opinion it is the closest thing. and plz Zomi-Mizo-Zo is the same. english people-people eglish, english ?? no wonder people call us dumbies. :D :D
ZO is VICTIM of lusie/thedim/laimiWritten by Guest on 2009-01-10 03:43:41
Dear Bros.. ZO is victimized by three short sighted attempts of domination of one family to other smaller families. the term Zo is wrongly addressed to present one family to manipulate the others.So, the good will ZO is narrowly viewed by many families as localism because of the missued of the zo term by dominant families. there are three types. 1) Mizoram/Mizo/Lusie/Dialect although the ZO(cho-yo-sho-masho) term was meant for the whole nation in the good will search, In mizoram a few(or many) lusie people started using Mizo term to present lusie and duhlien dialects and that it doesn't include others which is totally WRONG. Naga presents the whole 3 million population and no single dialect or a family of naga cannot represent the whole naga population. the paite,hmar,mara,lai doesn't have to agree to a bunch of lusie(or is it) self acclaimed theory. Everybody is Mizo as i am also but from a siyin family and siyin dialect. i want to encourage my brothers that You don't need to give in. everyone owns ZO. like every naga owns Naga.here Zo is victimized by Mizo/lusie/dialect. 2)Manipur I heard that in manipur the paite groups use own dialect to communicate with other paites.?? is it true? if that was the dialect manipulation has not occurred in manipur's paite community. But then the paite sticks to Zomi and says they are not Mizo. Does that make senses?? here again the Zo is victimized by paite community that zomi stands for paite and they are not Mizo although they agree that the both term are the same. it is funny and sad. But in Burma's paite community there is localism ideology trying to manipulate the smaller families. the term Thedim has been so wide used and the Thedim dialect is known to be the common dialect for the paite community but in reality it is half true as many families in the Thedim district don't use Thedim dialect and they don't recognize it for example siyin,thado,yo etc...as siyin i see the zomi/thedim/thedim dialect trying to force the other families so the ZO term is misused here also. ZO is nationality not family nor language. on the third part Lais from Hakha started calling everyone Lai, for which they say they have to counter the Zo ideology. but it ain't true even in logical way. Lai is but a family from Lailung.if lailung can be used to denote laimi and then lai as a nation, so can Ciimnuai. On the same logical level Ciimnuai is same as lai lung so we could say Ciimi?? and then call all Zo-Chin Ciimi. it is very funny . but that didn't happen. Lailun = Ciimnuai and not Zo. Zo is not only zo but ZO-YO-SHO-CHO. it represents A VERY WIDE PEOPLE but Lai is only Hakha. i hope i made myself clear that when Zo wanted to go for ZO as Nationalist name the Lai just didn't like the idea and they started levling lai with zo which i have explained that Ciimnuai is same level as Lailung not ZO. but the observers took it wrong by believing the lais that lai = zo (so wrong)and now chin as mediator btw lai and zo. lai is just a family and ZO is not. ZO is a very vast population which inclues YO-ZO-CHO-ASHO. it's not the same term. a lot of guys got wrong on this. tha'ts how i see it. that's why again ZO has been victim of lai fake localism trying to take charge on nationalism and ending up marginalizing the ZO term
THE TERM CHIN....Written by Guest on 2009-01-10 04:11:10
Dear Bros... to begin with Lian Sakhong has SO SUCCESSFULLY explained the origins of CHIN to the conclusion that "I SIMPLY DON"T KNOW WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY OR WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT" thz to him, the book has been a good example that there is short coming reliable data on CHIN although he wanted to do the opposite. I used to be crazy about chin when i was grade ten but now first Zo then Chin. I looked for how Lian Sakhong would try to find the term chin cause i really wanted to know what new reliable data has he got since he made a book. Are we really chin from the Chinese Dynasty haha.it's getting humorous. How a Lai would go Far to such an extent of deceit to promote her self acclaimed theory in the compensation of 3 million people ZO-Chin true identity. I have no problem with Sakhong writing a book on Chin studies BUT he must have real data. he just made a book so that future generations whom are with same arrogant ideology of the author can now quote that Sakong said this and that or it should be Sakhong made this and lied that.the only problem i have with CHIN (although i call my self Chin in Burma,it is a must) it is an outsider use. it is not even sure that the term is meant for good meaning. i heard Naga meant Naked? if that was true i am sorry for the Naga and although they are doing fine with that name but they should work on one with that is original.The paite call Burmese Kawlte and when a paite says that the meant like slave burmese or some sort. so i just want to show u an honest comparison. we call the burmese kawlte. they never call themselves kawlte but burmese. if u call a burmese kawlte he would laugh and he would never liked that cause they don't call themselves that.Vumson was trying to say that we should be pride of our national identity so it must be from inside not outsiders. so Burmese call us Chin and we don't call that to ourselves but Asho-Cho-ZO-YO(sorry for other families).but contrary to Burmese we had to accept the name CHin because they are the Majority government who are ruling this country with fist and guns. and the gov don't like the idea of changing the state to Zo cause it is same with Mizoram and zomi in manipur. it is a fact.which is good for Lai. just kidding.they won't want to see the state change to zo name at least the lai politicians. plz think about this. we accept the name given by outsider because simply we in our conscious thinks they are the superior. and no ZO-chin would want to think or admit that they are superior but look at it now. doesn't it mean that? the burmese call the English Kalar phyu(white indians) would the english accept that name ? so why did the CHIN-ZO accept CHIN??plz get the point bros. a burmese friend told me that(he knows a lot about zo-chin cause his wife is falam)if we burmese didn't give u a name you would have never be a nation or we could give like chin taung(basket). he was teasing me but he had a good point. i told him that Christianity was able to preserve and progress and unified our Zo-Chin nation and not the burmese and if the burmese didn't give the word chin, we would always have a name and i told him about ZO-YO-SHO. personally i take is as a INSULT and Iresponsible and SHAME that a nation has to take a name that an outsider has given to him without even with reliable data that the word had a positive view. Zo-sho-cho is my favorite. i would want to tell my kids that although outsiders call us Chin-and kuki we call ourselves Zo which means Conqueror and Victors.Chin as friend and basket is very misleading.plz i wrote this with an honest view i hope i get back the honest replies.:D:D always be ur brother even if mountains and identity divides us.:D:D:D
i hope i am not spoiling ur page :DWritten by Guest on 2009-01-10 04:13:44
Dear bros. thz for giving me this opportunity and are there any forums that i could exchange views.ya know Paite..Lusie..Hmar.. ya know plz give me links and and data about mara,zophei,lautu,senthang Unity in GOD and as Brothers in families
A little This a little thatWritten by Guest on 2009-01-10 04:41:10
Chin is Hard to accept for many families i am only one person just exchanging views. what can i say if the whole or the majority accepts chin. if that means nationalism union, i would accept it even though i like sho or zo, which is called ourselves by our ancestors. But dear Bros.. it is such an impossible matter that if we decide to break btw Zo-Chin i would join Zo but that doesn't separate me from my chin. don't u think it is simply IRONIC that a mara living in MIZORAM is in favor of Chin although to some extent he has to identify as Mara Mizo and that A siyin living in Burma where we are called Chin is in favor of Zo term although he is called Chin. we could work it out by switching sides ?? if you have lived in Burma as a Chin and aslo if u weren't a naturally arrogant hakha lai, the only thing that would make you choose CHIN and depart from Zo-yo-sho is that the Majority sides with CHIN as a national unity. And that will be not be the case when Democracy occurs in Burma. do u know that Mro party in Burma decided not to go as Chin But Mro khaw Khumi? just to mention that kumi would not accept zo but Chin. hey by the way can u translate the things Sa Sa form Armenia said in Matu language for ur bro ?:D i am eager to know the full discussion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MizoWritten by Guest on 2009-01-11 23:37:59
Note Though the term Mizo is often used to name a Tribe, it should be noted that it is just an umbrella term used to denote the various tribes who share distinctive similarities. Moreover, it is important to know that the term Mizo was coined only recently and it does not have a language as such which can be particularised as Mizo. A number of languages are spoken under the generic umbrella of MIZO; they are Hmar, Paite, Thadou-Kuki, Lushai (a dialect of the Duliens/ Duhlians; a Hmar sub-clan like the Thieks who still speak their own language), Mara to name a few. It is important that these clans/ tribes under Mizo be highlighted and documented as they are to safeguard from assimilation by the more popular wave of Western culture/ modernization (not necessarily meaning social-economic development). Hey bros....plz feed backs..am i not worthed ??